The Laws of Shark Jumping

[blahflowers]

So, I've worked out two so far. OK, the first is more a 'how to spot a show has jumped the shark'...

1) The number of main characters goes down and they aren't replaced. Buffy, gets rid of Faith, Angel, Riley, Joyce, Giles and Tara.

2) You think episodes that take the piss out of your show are a good idea. See X-Files 'Jose Chung's From Outer Space' or that vampire episode. Or SG-1's 'Average Joe'. What, taking the piss out of your fans is a bad idea? Emphasising the crappy bits of your show's past is a bad idea? Who'd of thought it?

Comments

[spyinthehaus.livejournal.com]

Ah, but Riley replaces Angel, and is replaced, in effect, by Spike, so it's not quite that bad. Tara isn't really a main character, and Anya and Dawn are introduced... and in Series 7 a *bewildering* numbers of characters of varying minorness and majorness crop up, presumably to reflect the "minor characters with their own narratives and stories" Big Gay Larry-ness of Series 1 & 2, except, you know, not as good.

[pot80.livejournal.com]

Exactly. A better complaint about Buffy 7 would be the overload of weak new characters, not that older characters are no longer with the show on a regular basis (nevermind that Giles is in half the episodes and Faith pops up for the last four.)

[blahflowers.livejournal.com]

I'll give you Angel-Riley, but Riley is replaced by Spike who is already an existing character in his own right, hence what were two seperate roles of Buffy's Boyfriend and Buffy's Antagonist are rolled into one. And I would argue that Tara is a main character from the start of season five until her death, it's people like the Potentials who, apart from Kennedy (Did I happen to mention I was gay) and 'the black one', have absolutely no characteristics to distinguish them from one another. People like Trick, big gay Larry, Snyder and Wood are supporting characters so don't count.

[judiff]

i'm not good with names but the local Sunydale potential is like a person too

[pot80.livejournal.com]

I disagree with #1 because it depends on what's going on in the story - sometimes you don't need extra characters and some characters run their course. And that's unfair re: Buffy, cos you're just dismissing Spike, Anya, Dawn, and Andrew. I get why some people hate Dawn, but Spike, Anya, and Andrew are all pretty fantastic.

Also, I don't get why you think it would be a good idea to "replace" Joyce after she died.

#2 is right on.

[blahflowers.livejournal.com]

Good point about characters running their course, but that rarely seems to happen in sci-fi/fantasy TV. The only acknowledged instance I can think of at the moment was Jeffrey Sinclair in B5, replaced by John Sheridan. Joyce Summers didn't need to be replaced by another mother figure, as the shows producers seem to think a mentally unstable 18 year old can run a family home, hold down a job, act as guardian to an equally disturbed younger sister AND defeat the forces of maledarkness, just replaced by someone. Spike and Anya join before the shark is jumped. For Buffy I place it at the end of season five, Riley has left, Joyce has gone and Giles is about to leave. The cast has been increased and now it's starting to be shrunk.

[pot80.livejournal.com]

Well, I think that the point of season 6 is that Buffy was NOT capable of juggling all of those responsibilities, and that's why it all goes wrong for her. I think that you have the opposite idea of what the producers were thinking!

[pot80.livejournal.com]

The big theme of season 6 is that Buffy's lost her mentors, has no boyfriend, and has grown distant from her peers, and has to deal with increased responsibilities. I think that the kind of situation that she goes through in that season is just as valid and relatable as her situation in high school. To me, I relate WAY more to season 5/6 Buffy, and so I respond to it more than the first two seasons.

[blahflowers.livejournal.com]

Although you have the scene with her and Giles in the last episode of that season I see no acknowledgement that she's out of her depth as opposed to making some bad choices. In season seven we have the mad situation of things like that episode where Buffy goes off and sulks because she doesn't get to be leader of the Potentials.

Earlier in the show we have acknowledgement of her shortcomings, such as the zombie episode when her friends and her have it out about the poor choices she's made. The closest we ever get to that is Willow's "get over yourself!" dream trip at the end of season 5. After that the 'Buffy is the hero' field takes over, but I think we've argued this before...

[pot80.livejournal.com]

Flowers, they acknowledge that she's out of her depth in practically every episode of the sixth season. It was a pretty heavy-handed theme! I mean, it's not as ham-fisted as parts of the Willow arc, but it's definitely in the foreground.

I think that bit in season 7 that you mention with her getting rejected by her friends and getting angry/sulky is pretty great, actually, and very plausible and within character for Buffy. One of the interesting things about Buffy, particularly in the later seasons, is that she has this enormous sense of entitlement, this huge superiority complex, but she feels awful about that, and it gives her an inferiority complex on top of it. Having her identity stripped from her and being betrayed by her friends is definitely reasonable cause for sulkiness.

The problem with that sequence is that it's very out of character for Dawn, Xander, and Willow to suddenly turn on Buffy like that.

[tom-o-bedlam.livejournal.com]

I was about to go, Hey, I liked Jose Chung's From Outer Space! And then I remembered that maybe I liked that, but I was really thinking about the episode where Scully and Mulder are telling conflicting stories about vampires. Best part of that one: in Scully's version, when she kicks in Mulder's hotel room door, the door actually comes off the hinges.

[blahflowers.livejournal.com]

That's just embaressing. If Mulder and Scully really viewed one another as they do in their versions of events they would have split up ages ago.

Apparently they're planning a second X-Files film. I'm hoping the theme music is going to be a chorus of "We're only in it for the money..."

[lozette.livejournal.com]

One of the main characters has a baby. End of show.

[enrobso.livejournal.com]

I think point #2 is a far better indicator.

I remember saying to Tree after the Cops episode of The X Files: "So when do they do the musical episode?" The very next episode, (the Hollywood one guest starring Garry Shandling and Tea Leoni,) finished up with a bunch of ghosts doing a dance routine on a Hollywood set.

[ill-prezidante.livejournal.com]

The show exceeds logical progression.

Look at it on this scale. Buffy gets chosen, learns role, accepts role, forms posse, overcomes ever harder challenges and fights ever harder monster until the point where the group fight and overcome a god. Appreciably the aftermath and ressurection are completely nessecary in terms of the story but then what? There is nowhere left to go with that, which would lead to what I understand to be a running series of intertwinned vignettes around the characters with occasional monster slaying. Something of a volte face from the original fiat IMO.

Fair enough though because, after beating a god there is nothing that can be thrown at them that they can't handle. Unless of course you have to resort to minor challenges complicated by personal issues which nearly kill characters.

Although the more harsh critics would claim shark-jumpage at the point where absurd plot devices are employed, such as everyone having to sing, all the way through. It just sounds like it got trawled from a badly run RPG.

[pot80.livejournal.com]

Well, that's why it's good and smart that Buffy ended when it did. I think that season 6 was a good follow up to the Glory thing because it went in the opposite direction with Warren and Willow. Season 7 was very much that "we covered everything now, let's wrap it up and bring things full circle." I respect that. But the execution in that season leaves a lot to be desired. You're right, since they beat Glory, they had to top that, and they had to do The First, which in theory is a good idea because it trumps Glory in terms of power and scale, but it just wasn't that compelling, and it felt too hokey at times.

[ill-prezidante.livejournal.com]

I really shouldn't comment on this as I've only ever seen about four and a half episodes ever. One of those was a latter Glory episode with a bunch of faux British people telling Buffy, in as faux twee a manner as possible, that Glory wasn't a demon. About two years later I saw a post resurrection episode that seemed to be trying to go back to the lighter writing style of the opening season. It came off as rather forced and thin.

Maybe I've only seen bad episodes but I've never really understood the attraction of the series. Then again "Once More With Feeling" is a much lauded episode and that's an hour of my life that I want back.

[pot80.livejournal.com]

That season 5 episode with the Watchers Council is "Checkpoint," I LOVE that episode! That episode is way better in context. I didn't like Buffy either when I only saw occasional episodes out of context. You kinda need to watch it all in order to get the maximum pleasure out of any given episode.

[ill-prezidante.livejournal.com]

I suspect that I will end up forgoing that pleasure. I can barely find time to watch an entire british series (usually 8-10 episodes) let alone a full 7 american seasons of a series.

I will endeavour to lament this between terrorising sunday afternoon rollerbladers and some Lady Snowblood in the evening but I make no guarantees. Despite my best efforts I just don't think that I'm a TV person at heart.

[pot80.livejournal.com]

I understand. The circumstances of my living situation over the past couple years allowed me to devour entire seasons of shows over the course of a week or so thanks to the netflix dvd service. If I was in a more normal situation, it would never have happened like that. I'm pretty grateful for putting in the time with Buffy, Angel, Six Feet Under, The Sopranos, etc.